Generational fairness? What the #[email protected]!% is that? (Transcript)

Hard Truths Podcast: Episode 1

March 18, 2022

Angie Chan  0:02 

Hello dear listeners, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm Angie Chan, your host of Hard Truths, a podcast brought to you by Gen Squeeze about Canada's broken generational system and how to fix it. This is episode one.

If you're anything like me, you'll experience or think about or talk about or observe life and not infrequently wonder what the heck is going on? How did we get here? You might look at your paycheck or house prices, or wildfires or your kids’ public schools or the wait time for your mom to go to surgery or the cost to fill up your tank and wonder, “Should I have made different choices? What can I do?”

Unless I'm with my absolute closest friends and family, the ride-or-dies who will love me no matter how much I like fumble on my words. I find it hard to talk about these issues that at the same time are so freakin’ big. Like how do we change systems? And also so small, like, we can make some trade-offs in our day to day, nothing we can't handle in the grand scheme of things.

With each episode of this podcast, we will highlight and unpack a hard truth to try to understand the forces that play in our lives. And to give some language to help us have more productive conversations about the issues we are facing. Maybe just maybe these conversations can even help us create new truths, ones that present hope and opportunity for us to move toward more just and equitable futures and more joyful and fulfilled lives.

I want to bring the great Paul Kershaw to your ears right now. Paul is the founder of Generation Squeeze and a professor at the University of British Columbia. Paul, hello.

Paul Kershaw  1:44 

Hello, it's so nice to be doing this with you.

Angie Chan  1:46 

Yes, I'm very excited. For over a decade you and Gen Squeeze have been working to help Canadians understand what the heck is going on. And you've been pushing for major policy changes to support a better deal for all generations, including future generations in the country. I so respect your work and would love for you to tell us a bit more about Gen squeeze, and hit us with our first hard truth.

Paul Kershaw  2:11 

Well, thanks so much, Angie, this is just really going to be fun. When I think about what Gen Squeeze is like we're a small but mighty powerhouse of the world of politics. And our goal is nothing less than creative disruption of a status quo that's clearly not working for all Canadians. It's really not working for younger Canadians. ‘

And the evidence is all around us. We see young people are locked out of an affordable housing market. We've got families who can't find affordable childcare, we've got earnings simply don't keep pace with our major costs of living. We've got this climate crisis that is just so frightening to deal with. And we have an older population that's increasingly recognizing that the legacy they're leaving for their kids and grandchildren isn't entirely what the head intended.

And we try to be mighty at those moments when other orgs are most likely to sit down. And we want to stand up. And what I mean by that is like, we're trying to create big policy change by influencing the party platforms that are put on offer to us when we are casting our vote during elections, and then using our influence on those platforms to then change the policies that governments invest in via their budgets. And because we are rooted in the academy, we are pretty hard to discredit.

And so one of our big jobs is to tell people some hard truths, not just give simple slogans about how to fix big problems facing us. But hard truths, telling it like it is right now, even though we're not always popular when we do so. So we'll say some hard things about housing or climate change, or the lack of work life balance and other big issues that are staring Canadians in the face. And we're going to try and find those sustainable solutions, which is why we've created this podcast to like dig deeper into the big issues that we're trying to stare down at talk about hard truths.

And the first hard truth that I think we need to shine a light on is a big overarching problem: that Canada has a generational fairness problem.

Angie Chan  4:04 

A generational fairness problem if you've never heard of it, you're not alone.

Vox Pops  4:14 

Generational fairness?

I don't really give it much thought.

I haven't heard the term actually.

I don't know. Is that a movie or what? I don't know.

Generational fairness, like as being fair, and just like justice?

Not sure that's hard to put into words. Because you think about the difference like between like your grandparents and your parents and like, they talk about, Oh, we didn't have as many opportunities as you did.

I think generational fairness would mean like another generation could not relate to my generation. So I feel like in one particular generation, everyone having equal access to opportunities,

Maybe having the privilege of like, being born into the generation or family were like, like the world plays more to your advantage compared to like maybe other people.

I mean, I would assume that it's like the people from one generation treating the people from like the older or the younger generation, in the same way that they would treat themselves, right.

We stand on one another's shoulders.

Paul Kershaw  5:23 

So Angie, I think some of those comments really reveal a lot about the systemic problem at Gen Squeeze that we're trying to fix. Because we heard a bunch of people's like generational fairness, like What the frig is that, and when we talk about it in those terms, it's clear many people don't recognize the problem. But how do we ask people about like, hey, how do you feel about housing right now, or your childcare costs or what's going on with climate change, we would have had, every one of those people have really strong views.

And so what it's showing is that people are really aware of the symptoms of generational unfairness in their lives, but they're less likely to identify the underlying disease, its problem of generational fairness. And so that's why we need to invite people to talk more about what I think of an intergenerational virus that's actually plaguing our political, our social and our economic systems.

And the first step in bringing about the kind of creative disruption that we want to bring to fix this broken system, is to have everyone talk about it more. And through doing that we can give ourselves a chance, a chance to live up to our potential, enough time and money to enjoy life, and the opportunity to leave our cities, our country and our planet. better off than we found it.

Angie Chan  6:34 

Mm hmm. Yeah, I totally hear what you're saying. It's like, that very overused metaphor of the onions, like gonna peel that back. And like, oh, man, there's another layer and another layer. And so when you're talking about what's causing the symptoms, what does that diagnosis look like? What would you say we're actually talking about?

Paul Kershaw  6:53 

Yeah, I think we're trying to understand three intergenerational principles are not being followed. We're not being good stewards for those who follow. So we're not fostering what I like to call generational reciprocity. And as we're not planning for all ages, and this is sort of like my high level thinking about like the the key things that are we need to do to promote generational fairness. And if we can think about that a bit more. That'll help us understand then why why do we have this childcare problem? How's it going affordability problem, climate change problem and budgets that don't work for all generations?

Angie Chan  7:27 

Yeah, yeah. So let's can we dig into that first one? The the being good stewards?

Paul Kershaw  7:32 

Yeah, let's do that. I think if you remember the comment from one of the interviews that that person saying, hey, generational fairness, I think it means we stand on one another shoulders. And I think that's super clever. Because it's reminding us that, okay, someone's gonna come after us. And if they're going to stand upon our shoulders, and you know, they're going to do something great next.

But that means for those who come before there's a responsibility, each generation has a responsibility to act on the moral of the story that we've all heard somewhere before, the idea that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

And so generational fairness requires that we all responsibly anticipate and prevent problems before they take root, before they become way more costly to fix. And it's especially important that we aim to preserve what we think is sacred for those who follow, like a stable climate, like a healthy childhood, like the ability to afford a good home. Mm

Angie Chan  8:25 

hmm. Okay, so as you know, I work in, in primary care where it's all about prevention. That's the hope, right? And it's so hard to actually live out that wisdom, like, we intellectually, I think, know that that's the smarter route to go than waiting for a crisis to happen later on. But something is stopping us from doing the so called right thing. And I just wonder if you have any thoughts on what's underneath that?

Paul Kershaw  8:55 

Well, I think there are a range of things that are underneath it. And it's partly that, you know, the systems in which we operate do tend to have us focus on the near term. And simultaneously, sometimes it's easier to see that you have a big problem when it's really materialized. It's much more challenging to see that we've prevented problems from having happening in the first place. And if it's harder to see, then we don't often prioritize it as much.

But if we look right now in Canada at some of the big challenges that we're facing, it's not like a news story that childcare has been unaffordable for decades. But we didn't adapt really quickly, by investing in younger Canadians to have access to good quality childcare. And on our watch, we didn't say, Oh, my God, housing prices are leaving what locals can earn. We need to stop that we need to slow down home prices caused them to stall to restore affordability for all so earnings can chat Shut up, and that's happening on our watch.

And so we're actually living now a range of problems that we didn't prevent, and we're still not mustering up the courage, either as citizens to demand are politicians make change urgently enough? Or then giving rise to politicians who are courageous enough to act on the evidence?

Angie Chan  10:07 

Yeah. So you had talked about three principles. Let's touch on that second one you had mentioned fostering generational reciprocity. Could you say more about that?

Paul Kershaw  10:18 

I think we can think about the idea of generational reciprocity in terms of the the intergenerational golden rule, you know, do unto other generations as you would have them do unto you. And I think one of the people who is doing that interview earlier on in our podcast really nailed it. He said, Oh, generational fairness, maybe it's like people in one generation, and treating other generations in the way they would like to be treated. I think, actually, I wish I had ran into that person years ago, because he said in one sentence, something I've been trying to like, boil down for years.

Angie Chan  10:47 

So I can see it being like an easy sell, for someone to think about taking care of the next generation within their own family. I'm curious, given that you've been working on these issues for a decade, you've talked to so many different people? Do you get the sense that there is the same kind of generosity to Ward's strangers towards those generations of people who were not connected to?

Paul Kershaw  11:18 

Oh, that's a really good question. I definitely know that the concept of like intergenerational fairness is really clear around a family table. I mean, what grandparent doesn't want to leave a proud legacy for kids and grandchildren, and what grandkids don't want to do well by their aging grandparents, and then you've got the the middle generation in between, like working their butts off to try and care for both. And so that clearly works. Like you said, that's an easy sell.

But we don't have our political system, modeling that in the same way. We don't actually have our governments when they go through and do their budgets and tell us how they're going to use scarce tax dollars or use the atmosphere scarce capacity to absorb carbon, they're not accounting and reporting on like, well, it's going to do this for the young, it's going to do this for the old, and are we finding the right balance. And because we don't even have our governments monitoring, and that way, we then don't have them questioning whether or not they're finding the right balance. And if they're not questioning that you then don't have the media questioning it.

And so this problem of, you know, not fostering generational reciprocity goes under the radar. And I think that's one of the key things Gen Squeeze is trying to do is like, okay, let's bring that intergenerational love that we have at our family tables, and bring that into the world of politics, so that we're not just focused on the next four year electoral cycle, but we're actually focused on what's going to be happening, you know, years from now, so that we try and prevent problems. And it's what makes it gives me hope about working on the issue of generational fairness, because generations love one another within families. And we can tap into that love at the family level, and make it influence the world of politics more and more, we can solve some of the big challenges we're facing, whether it's climate change, or unaffordable housing or childcare and affordability, what have you.

Angie Chan  13:06 

Yeah, yeah, I love that you use the word love, because it's particularly in sort of, you know, your policy circles. It's, it's a soft feeling. It's, is it productive? What is it for, but it's, it really underlies an entire approach to how you see your responsibility to the world, how your contributions affect others, bringing love into the conversation, I think, is maybe radical, maybe different. So let's hit that third principle planning for all ages. I feel like that's the responsibility part of our conversation.

Paul Kershaw  13:43 

Yeah, definitely. But actually, I want to just go back for a moment to the love theme, because in the context of a podcast called hard truth, I think that the love theme is actually really critical. Because one, it shows like, hey, we want this to work for all generations. And to sometimes it's the people that you care about the most, that it's especially important to have hard conversations with to talk about when things aren't quite working well. And because there's that context of love, like it's, there's some safety to do it.

And so I'm constantly thinking about how Gen Squeeze can, you know, walk that tightrope on one hand, to help people things that are hard to hear, but with the intention of making it possible for us to actually achieve the the win-win for everyone involved getting it right for our aging parents getting it right for their grandkids.

And I think that's maybe a nice segue into that third principle about, you know, planning for all ages, because societies have a responsibility to strike this right balance between, hey, we need to get young kids off to a good start. Because research shows that our health and wellbeing is fundamentally shaped by the conditions in which we're born, grow, live, work and age. Those conditions are so darn important actually. Because our genes are literally waiting to express themselves in response to our first expression. variances, it's means we only have one chance to get people off to the best start. And when conditions constrain one's good start, there can be lifelong implications. So think about greater risk of failing at school, wanting up in jail or falling ill later on our lives when it could have been prevented, which is pretty much all resulting in unrealized potential for people.

And hence, it's critical for public policymakers and generations to say, how are we getting it right? For the generation raising young kids, it's gonna be good for those kids, it's going to be good for society generally.

And simultaneously, we know biologically as people age, they're going to grow more frail. It's like reality of the human experience. And so we also have a duty to care for older generations. And that duty is especially strong when those older generations have been good stewards on behalf of those who are following in their footsteps. It's a planning for all ages means let's improve the conditions that shape young people's well being as much as we treat the illness experienced by the aging population.

And that's a really, it's an interesting tension, because oftentimes, the people who are aging will have some of the most power in society, young kids can't vote yet. And their parents are busy with all the things involved in raising young kids. And so we do see older folks are more likely to show up at the ballot box. And right now, our politics often responds by prioritizing things that matter for that aging population. More so than we're investing in the generation raising young kids.

Angie Chan  16:24 

Yeah, yeah. I think your points about those first few years, we're getting ourselves off to the best start, the more I think about this and learn and hear others talk and the more I realize how much luck and chance are so a part of our our future success and well being like, what it makes me think about is that I could have been born in any number of different circumstances and being like my 42 year old self in a very different way. And like, I don't know, I guess like, that feeds into a sense of responsibility as well, just sort of thinking about, there's effort involved in where we all are now today. But there's also like, an incredible amount of randomness. And so let's take care of each other. Because we could have been in somebody else's shoes very easily. I have heard you in the past talk about the lottery of timing.

Paul Kershaw  17:19 

Yeah, yeah, I do use that phrase, “the lottery of timing,” a lot. And it to some degree that reflects, you know, I'm keenly aware that I'm a white boy with a bunch of unearned privileges. And it's partly what motivates me to want to use some of that unearned privilege to try and make the systems that aren't working for others work better.

And it goes to something we heard from one of the interviews at the top of the podcast where this person said, “Oh, generational fairness has something to do with how we're born into a generation where the world either plays more to our advantage, and it doesn't.”

And I think this is critical, because right now we have a time when for young adults in Canada and the kids that they're raising, it isn't the best time, me will often hear, “Oh, we didn't have as many opportunities as you now do.” And I think there's some truth to that, like issues around sexism and racism and violence toward the queer community. Definitely limited opportunities decades ago, more so than it does now. Although those barriers continue to be real today.

And it absolutely is the case that right now we have people who, you know, have cell phones and computers and big screen TVs, and those things didn't necessarily exist decades ago.

But the reality is that cell phones and TVs aren't the factors that really determine our standard of living and our standard of living is shaped by how much we get paid for our hard work, and how much hard work is required to pay for our major costs. And when I think about it from that perspective, then young people right now are definitely having fewer opportunities than did their parents. And the more we ignore that or overlook that or distract attention from it, the more we actually reinforce our broken intergenerational system.

So young Canadians have lost out in the lottery of timing compared to their aging population. And it boils down to the reality that hard work simply isn't paying off right now at this generational moment in the way that it did, in particular for baby boomers some decades ago. And because hard work doesn't pay off like it used to, it's squeezing younger Canadians for time, for money for services and like a healthy climate. You know, in Canada, we've just been hearing a lot about freedom and you've had protests about whether or not freedom is being hampered during the pandemic. But there are much greater opportunities and constraints on freedom that we are creating by tolerating this broken generational system. And that's what I hope that we can focus more and more of our attention on going forward.

Angie Chan  19:40 

Yeah, I see it now, if we just go back to that lottery of timing thing. When I look at some of my younger friends who graduated in 2008, when there was the financial crisis, and then the pandemic hits, and like, man, that sucks. They're at a major disadvantage. It's really greatly influenced the choices that they make in terms of where they work and whether or not they go to school and how, where they live and whether they stay home. And but I also know, and we've talked about this, that where we are right now isn't entirely random, that it is sort of a cumulative effect of a lot of policy decisions that we've made. And I'm wondering how did we get here? And I think we truly believe that doesn't need to be this way. What can we do tell us a little bit more about like, how the sausage is made, and how maybe we can get out of it?

Paul Kershaw  20:41 

Well, the reality is that any system, including a generational system is created and sustained by the choices that people in a society make choices about what and how much we want to consume, what economic and political systems we design and sustain and, and what do we encourage those systems to prioritize based on our values and our votes. And I guess one thing that we're going to need to do more of is sort of unpack some of those choices that have been made over time that then result and just as you said, people born a decade later, a couple days later, having fewer opportunities. It's the case that someone just as smart as me, and just as hard working as me, now isn't going to be able to afford to live where I do, not because of anything that they've done wrong, but because actually on my watch, I didn't do enough to like stop the runaway home prices, leaving earnings behind. And that is a massive generational tension.

Angie Chan  21:33 

Paul, I can hear the passion in your voice. And this is what inspires me. You know, like I, I think that we regularly hear a lot of stories where it's how hard life is. And it's good to recognize that but we can make different choices. And there is a different future. That's possible. And so I'm wondering if you could also given this as our first podcast. And can you say a little bit more about where this passion comes from and how you became so personally invested in this problem?

Paul Kershaw  22:02 

Yeah, so many reasons. I'll feature two right now. The first I have to take my hat off to my mum…

Angie Chan


Paul Kershaw

Mums I know exactly right? You know all about this. And my mum's a big inspiration in my life. And she spent her career working with kids and adults who have disabilities. And even in retirement right now, I'm so proud of how hard she works to support Syrian refugee families who she's helped to immigrate to Canada.

But when I watched my mum from being a little boy, I noticed that she's working in systems that are broken, and helping one person or one family, when she's helped that family overcome a challenge. There's been many others still needing support. And while my mum has boundless energy for such work, it had me start questioning early on, like, couldn't we help many, many more people. At the same time, if we fix the broken system, rather than keep dealing with its symptoms, its effects.

It's like one of the reasons why, over a decade ago, at Gen squeeze, we started saying, Okay, we need to fix this childcare problem. And we coined the phrase $10 Day childcare and worked with a bunch of other groups to like mobilize support for that. And I'm super proud now, a decade later, it took way longer than I'd hoped. But we've had this historic $30 billion investment made by the federal government to ensure that in the years ahead, childcare will never again cost another rent, or mortgage sized payment. And that is going to help literally hundreds of 1000s of families ease their time squeezing their money squeeze is they're trying to cope with rising home prices. And so that's one fact.

And I guess the other reason I feel energetic about it is because I can. I can do the work. And what do I mean by that is that I think we have responsibilities as citizens, I think we get the politics for which citizens work. Politics responds to those who organize and show up and as I mentioned earlier, I am a white boy with lots of unearned privileges that makes it easier for me to show up. And also I don't happen to have kids on my own. So I have more time than those parents who are squeezed for time and money when they're raising their kids.

And, and that brings me back to my mum, she stood up for individuals who need an ally, I want to live up to that and stand up for generations who need an ally. Because I think I know, I know. I don't think I know this country can and should work for all generations.

Angie Chan  24:25 

Yeah, you. I'm sorry. This is going to be like a little bit of a compliment torrential rainfall. But I think you're such a great example of how you don't have to have lived the same experience to be able to empathize and be compassionate and be a great ally and fight for a better future or a better world and I hope that I can actually like make more choices like that I I just I appreciate you and I know that there are a lot of other really amazing people out in the community across Canada, who are the same who come at the work with a lot of love that I think continues to drive them even when things are a huge grind. And it takes a decade to make a change in the cost of child care. So thank you. Let's continue on this ride of positivity. How do we turn this around? Are we headed towards an epic battle? Or can we make this change with love?

Paul Kershaw  25:23 

Well, it does NOT need to be an epic battle between Yeah, boomers, and those who follow. Ultimately, we need generational solidarity, we need this to work for young and old alike. And so Gen Squeeze is in no way, shape, or form going to be in the business of pitting generations against one another.

But we do run into a challenge that sometimes when we make comparisons between older and younger Canadians, people perceive us to be doing that. And when we talk about sexism, we compare what's happening for men and women. We don't think we're pitting sexes against one another. We think the society is already doing that, we need to draw attention to these differences and start trying to address inequalities.

And so this podcast is trying to say, there are hard truths that we need to tackle, we need to tell the older generations that we love that there is absolutely no doubt they work hard for their lifestyles and for the retirement they're wanting to enjoy, or they've already started. And they absolutely paid their taxes according to the rules of the day back when they were working. But I then need to tell them or Jenn squeeze needs to tell them that what they paid is not enough to cover the services they now want and use. And it certainly is not enough to cover the cost of new services many of us now hope to build after witnessing what's gone wrong in the pandemic, like we need more long-term care and more pharma care, we need to build those things. But the reality is, if we don't have a conversation with those retirees, how are we going to pay for it now, then we're going to leave unpaid bills to their kids and grandchildren. And we're going to squeeze out our ability to invest in the things that they need, you know, they need that affordable childcare, they need housing that's in reach, they need to fend off the worst that climate change is going to throw at us.

And so right now, we actually have to be open in a loving, kind, generous way with our aging parents and grandparents that there hasn't been enough planning for all ages, and that we might be violating this reciprocity between generations, they may not have meant for that to happen. But we have to start talking about it. Because only when we do, are we going to be able to overcome this broken generational system?

Angie Chan  27:28 

What's the sort of criticism around Well, are you like pitting generations against each other? Does that typically come from the younger generation or the older generation?

Paul Kershaw  27:37 

That's a really interesting question. I mean, back in the day, we definitely didn't earn the friendship of the Canadian Association of Retired Persons. When we started comparing what was government investing and older and younger Canadians, it was like three times more than older Canadians. And when we started pointing out well, that, you know, we don't want any poor seniors, but seniors have way lower poverty rates than younger Canadians.

So there does seem a critique come from an older generation. It's most stressful when it shows up in the inbox when you have an older demographic, you know, they'll send nasty emails telling me to eff off. And they're like, you know, I worked hard for my home. How dare you think about asking us now that we've, you know, accumulated some wealth windfall from it, that we might want to contribute that to help people who follow in our footsteps. And it's on that front that I just really need some help, maybe through this podcast from listeners, like how do we help people recognize no one's saying you didn't work hard. We're just saying that your hard work paid off more than hard work is paying off today. And since you still value the hard work, then why aren't you on board, wanting to restore the ways in which our system should make hard work pay off for younger Canadians today? Rather than just quickly, you know, pull up some cultural myth that “Oh, if only younger Canadians didn't eat so much avocado toast or have so many coffees or you know, buy that frigging cell phone,”-- that allows them to stay on their job 24 hours a day, by the way—"if only they didn't do those things, then they too could afford a home.”

Like we minimize the challenge today, in part because we want to feel like “oh, we worked hard. So clearly, these people aren't.” And that's the tension that we face, I think from an older demographic.

And from the younger demographic… It's funny, one time, in the earliest days of Gen Squeeze, I showed a picture of a retired couple drinking some wine on a cruise. And this young person said in response to my pitcher, you know, I'm not super keen on your dragon on my parents right now, because I'm living in their basement, and I feel appreciative for that. And I'm like, Yeah, exactly.

So you see, this goes back to your point earlier that within a family, generations are going to help our own. But then we don't see that play out in the world of politics. And so we're having that younger person, like, gosh, I'm doing something wrong, and my parents are bailing me out by letting me stay in the basement longer than they probably ever expected.

And Gen Squeeze’s point is you're not doing anything wrong, the system's broken, and we need you to recognize it's not your fault. Something bigger is going on. And when we do that, we hope we can restore your confidence. And then yes, be appreciative of your parents, but also then expect your parents to voice, that they have a responsibility to be good stewards to foster reciprocity with the following generations and to plan for all generations, and that they may not be living up to those principles right now. That would be a really profound and positive conversation.

Angie Chan  30:28 

Oh, my God, Paul, what is underlying this resistance to recognizing that there are differences between generations? I feel like there's some underlying value here that we need to recognize, I don't know exactly what that value is.

Paul Kershaw  30:18 

I think no one likes to be told that they're powerful. Mm hmm. And there's something going on right now, at this moment where a younger demographic is needing to voice to people that have cared for us and to generations that we love, and say, Whoa, there is a power imbalance here. It may mean not what you intended, but it's now harming me, and that I think's the key. And I know, you know, there's a lot of fear and frustration out there. More and more, there's like, anger about things that are happening. One of the things I I've witnessed is like, the kind of left of center narrative is like, okay, the big problem is there's inequality between the Jeff Bezos of the world and the rest of us. And, you know, we had the Occupy movement not that long ago, say, We are the 99%. And it's the 1%. That's so problematic, and oppressing all of us. And there's real truth to that kind of class analysis. But it's not the whole story of Gen squeezes then coming and saying, you know, hey, you regular folks, like, you know, my grandparents did you know, you might be part of the problem, you have more privileged than you might have realized, and that is so unsettling. And so, with this podcast, and we don't need to answer it all, in the first podcast. We're gonna be curating this conversation for a while. But how do we constructively unsettle people, some whom we love? Just think about that grumpy uncle at the next Thanksgiving dinner. More importantly, how do we engage with our parents and grandparents, we know love us, and then how can we get them to come on board as allies in this fight for a Canada that works for all generations. And I think the more we invite that older demographic into fight with us now, the prouder they will be about the legacy they leave behind. And that's a pretty sweet gift to give.

Angie Chan  32:45 

I think that is a great place to wrap up our very first podcast, is there anything more that you want to say about how Gen squeezes tackling the problem, or what our listeners can do to help?

Paul Kershaw  32:57 

You know, this is going to be a podcast that focuses more and more like, how do we fix the system? How do we fix housing, childcare, climate change, and then we're gonna want to try and build a big enough coalition around those solutions, so that we can actually change the incentives to which politicians respond. And only when we build enough political cover for politicians to act courageously on the evidence, are we ultimately going to fix these systemic issues. So with the podcast, if you like us, subscribe, stick around, come back for more, but also go to our website, and add your influence to the Gen Squeeze movement, because our power grows with the size of the network, and then maybe tell your parents and your friends and your relatives, what you think generational fairness means and why it's important and contribute to the conversation. In the podcast. We have an email, info [at] gensqueeze [dot] ca, and you can send your comments about what you're hearing, you know, suggest topics you might like to hear us cover, because, you know, we're talking about hard truths, but we're not here to be downers. We're really here to be a force for change.

Angie Chan  34:01 

Thank you, Paul. All right. Thank you listeners for sticking with us for this first podcast. Please do subscribe to Hard Truths. And feel free to share this podcast with friends and family. We hope you'll join us for our next episode about some of the assumptions that prop up our broken generational system. We're going to start with the myths of the lazy millennial and the poor senior. Thank you for listening.

Generational fairness? What the #[email protected]!% is that? (Transcript)
Generational fairness? What the #[email protected]!% is that? (Transcript)
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Hard Truths from Gen Squeeze
Hard Truths